Re: An Open Letter to LSM On the Topic of the Forums

[Maximillion]

Your wording and my lines you seem opposed to or at least inclined to comment on makes me think otherwise, but I'm just going to assume that it was a misunderstanding between us. So, to clear that up, are you agreeing that an Rper's contribution and efforts should be what affect the importance of their RPC?

Their contributions and efforts in the actual RPG, after such a system is established, without regard for anything on-Grid, then...yes, I agree that people who give to the RPG aspect of the game, and contribute the most/best to the RPG aspect of the game (once it's established), should be given priority consideration for roles of importance in the RPG aspect of the game.

I also find it quite hard to believe that you're not at least subconsciously persecuting older players. I've been purposefully avoiding the whole mod-biased debate because that wasn't the focus of my initial letter, it was to revive the forum and bring back RP in case I wasn't clear enough, but you mention the bias in almost every single one of your posts. (I'll be honest, I didn't read all your posts, just skimmed through those directly related to mine, so I may have taken some things out of context.)

You go as far as saying that a lot of players are in cliques and that if they come over, it'll be a "take over," a "tragic waste",  very connotated choices of word that lack tact. After reading this, as someone who is arguably part of a clique, I can't help but feel unwanted. Cliques are bad? They would waste the RP? alrighty, m8, I'll stick to my cliques. It feels like you are extremely defensive of these New Lands you've found and only want people not in cliques to join when you should be taking this as an opportunity to bait people into opening up.

Let me please correct this misunderstanding.

I would welcome Grid Players to anything and everything I have going on in RP, whether they'd been a member 10 years or 10 minutes. I would not care if they were Lv.1 or Lv.9001 on the Grid. My sole concern, in the RPG, would be to make the space as fun and enjoyable for everyone as I can, offering up as many characters as I can to be fodder for Plot and Story, with a character or two I'd use for my own personal enjoyment.

The takeover would be, if John Doe, John Smith, Jane Doe and Joe Schmoe - who are all Captains/Espada on-Grid - came over to RP, and were given priority consideration for identical/similar roles in the RPG, simply due to their ranks (or reputation) on-Grid. There are plenty of us, with no real years under our belts yet, who deserve an equal shot at those roles and ranks.

If anything, I would propose a competition of sorts, to gauge and feel out the Interest and Ability of each person who wanted to participate in the RPG, then assign some ranks based on who showed the highest level of commitment, interest, literacy, and enthusiasm for their craft.

To dive a bit deeper into my meaning, I don't think that the uppermost-tiers (Espada, Captains, Kings, Queens, etc) in RP starting out should be RPCs, but NPCs. We would all learn to serve, follow orders, and prove our commitment to our factions in-RP (and our ability to work together, and occasionally put others first, OOC'ly), then - as circumstances permit - offer up promotions (in baby steps) for people who have served their Factions well.

Heck, I'd be just as fine if we all just started out (like on the Grid) as Humans, Hollows or Souls (not yet Shinigami), and began our stories from scratch, as we worked our ways up the hierarchical ladders.

I can understand your plight about being ignored when offering your services for signatures or avatars, but that is just how the art industry works. This may just be a game, but it's a good microcosm of how commissions and requests work: you have to shove your work in people's face, whether they want it or not, and pull strings/connections/ favors if you want to be noticed while you quietly build your portfolio. Meanwhile the big names will have people flocking to them and have the leisure to pick their client despite their exorbitant price. Good relations play a very big role in earning you patrons. The world and business is not a meritocracy despite what we're being taught as a child and there is no law forcing consumers to support service providers in an equalitarian way. 

That's fair.

As for your issues with mixed and favoritism, I would HIGHLY (all caps for emphasis) suggest you start taking screenshot. As much as I would like to believe what you are saying, I have yet to see any proof of all that taking place. Mixed messages, PMs, official warnings, EVERYTHING should be screenshoted for the sake of having some sort of record at hand to back up your claims. Lightshot is a pretty useful program most people here use for screenshot.

I am looking into Lightshot as I write this. I currently use Puush, but with all the scandal about Malware and whatnot, I'm considering moving over..or, at least, mulling over using a different service. I know Puush fixed the bug they had, and provided a Tool for removing the errant bug that had been injected into their service, so that's also going to be considered as I go over my options.

But, yes... I will begin providing actual examples, as they occur. I just know that Hitori the Threadkiller (saying it with facetious mirth, not malice) doesn't often require much to drop a thread to it's knees and lop its head off, so I'm constantly trying to operate within the parameters of the rules.

Mods seem to like their posts and Warnings being copied/pasted/screenshot, about as much as Police like being filmed, so.... we'll see how this goes.

It would make sense, you don't walk up to a random person you meet on the street or your arch nemesis (I am under the impression that you've pissed off the majority of the active Mixed user)  while yelling "your mom sucks" and expect to walk away scot free. The exception to that would be words that could trigger others and flat out insults. If they give you a warning, drop the topic in chat. Sure, you can go SJW mode to defend yourself and that is your right, but that goes through supports. Discussing that in mixed will only worsen your case. They don't like controversial topics or arguing there.

A lot of the humor, especially that which would look vulgar or obscene in mixed company, should have no place in Social. I have reported it in the past, and had Hitori say that the behavior was not in violation of the rules. He always locks his replies to my Support Tickets, so I've never been able to hash it out with him without making a new ticket....and, to be honest, I hate the idea of there being an entire WALL of Support Tickets from me, when Staff log into the ACP.

Yes, that's a personal hang-up, but the more tickets I submit, the longer it begins taking staff to address my tickets. I've had Hitori and Law both clean up tickets that the System (due to lag or whatever) double/triple submitted, but still not respond to my Ticket for almost a week afterwards, meaning they saw them, but did not address them.

I'm at a loss for what to do, beyond what I already have, so I will probably just do as you proposed, and just start submitting screenshots, and get feedback from the community here on the Forums.

Really, the way Social on-Grid revolves around the use of a Shoutbox (and it's limitations therein), that may be the best way overall.

[Hitori]

On the note of screnshots, don't take too much weight on them. And here is why:

http://prntscr.com/dg78zq

This is what support requests are for. If you disagree with a warning or ban. Submit a support. If it was a mod or head mod that issued it, LSM or I will handle it. If it was me that did the OW or ban, LSM will handle it. If LSM issued it, well it's his game so that's between you and him. Not every staff member on the block can see these supports.

[EDIT//EXAMPLE] If you supply a screenshot of the chat, we don't rely on it completely. We will use tools to review what happened.

[Maximillion]

Fortunately, any screenshots I take, will be 100% verifiable by any WoB Admin with sufficient access.

Way too much happening, to make up new stuff. However, yes, it is important to note, that one should seriously consider that a Screenshot is legit, but allow room for doubt in the likelihood of a screenshot that has been tampered with.

Good policy for life in general, actually: allow room in your mind for all possibilities and likelihoods, even those that seem impossible and unlikely. :p

[Lacrimosa]

@Maximillion:

Before I begin, let me flatly state that I do not like you, but since I contributed so much to this s***storm by starting this thread, I decided to put some effort into responding to you again, but remaining as neutral as possible wasn't easy.

Concerning the important RP roles, I am perfectly fine with them staying NPCs, especially at the beginning of an RP. I've even played MMORPGs where they try so hard to keep the immersion that they do just that: any high ranking officials/elders/clan leaders of factions are NPC, even during major war events. Some may argue that it would make the story/setting too static, but that is not the case since the people in charge of the RP (even in an rp without mods) can still puppet them, and if the need arises, get rid of them. It's not hard to write them off as some busy authority that remains aloft while dismissing all the plebs(RPCs)' "shenanigans"(RP).

Setting up a trial/test to see who gets what role is also fine by me, but Bleach has a notoriously big cast of "powerful" character/ranks, and the current active Rpers can be easily counted on one hand…Frankly, with how little Rpers are around, it would be best to just stick to a single-thread RP with 1 GM in the classical D&D style, mods be damned. It'll leave the Rpers with much more freedom if they're fine with having all they've done written off as an AU or side-story once they've attracted enough Rpers to get the ball rolling and convince the admins to actually invest in an official RP board.

Yeah, it'll be neat to get official RP mods because it'll give some weight/legitimacy to the RP forum, but an active and engaging RP is much more appealing, so that's where the focus should be. Heck, even non-Bleach RP would be a step towards reviving the forums since it's a little sign of life.

One thing I would REALLY want to see is an OoC RP subforum. There is currently an "RP Suggestion" subforum, but its name limits what type of topics are allowed there. An OoC subforum would be ideal for the RP people to mingle and even plan things there, something I value a lot because Rping is mostly a social activity to me. This should be done ASAP. If not, revive the Random Stuff subforum to include some silly games/random threads just to keep the mood light. Why? Simply to diffuse the current negativity in the forums right now and show different facets of all parties involved.

If I were to put myself in the shoes of someone curious about the current state of RP affairs and stumble into the forums for the first time after another one of lsm/hitori's globals on the matter, I'll naturally go check what threads are currently active, including those outside of the RP areas. What are the most active thread right now? Yours, with a big "S", and what will I see in them? Big walls of texts that are mainly complaints, or in Mixed jargon, dead sea levels of "salt."

Whether or not I agree with your points, I will see that the forum is nothing more than a bunch of negativity, and nothing fun is happening there right now. As someone who wasn't invested in the RP to begin with, there would be no point in me dipping my toe into the waters when I could be spending my limited free-time and energy on another RP site where there isn't that much negativity.

Concerning Mixed Chat, you mention that a lot of humor is vulgar and obscene in mixed, and I agree to that part of the statement, in fact, I like to contribute to the obscenity of mixed, but as long as it remains in the realm of innuendos, that's allowed. I've received my fair share of warnings to learn to tiptoe on that tightrope and should I step out of line, I don't mind receiving a ban or a warning. If you disagree with what is being allowed in mixed, you are disagreeing with the rules being laid down, so it isn't the moderators you should be going after, but the head honcho.

@Hitori
I'm very well aware that screenshots aren't 100% reliable what with how easy Inspect Element or even Photoshop are to use, but screenshots or editing a file usually comes with a timestamp, and I'm positive that is enough to indicate where to begin investigating a report for the ones concerned. As for normal players like me and Joe Blow, screenshotS can help with understanding the situation instead of relying on very vague, biased summary of the events.

[Maximillion]

Before I begin, let me flatly state that I do not like you

We don't know one another, so I wouldn't expect you to?

Whether or not I agree with your points, I will see that the forum is nothing more than a bunch of negativity, and nothing fun is happening there right now.

A lot is happening right now, both behind the scenes, and on the actual boards. Only those of us who are investing in WoB RP, though, will be seen....well, investing in WoB RP.

If I were to put myself in the shoes of someone curious about the current state of RP affairs and stumble into the forums for the first time after another one of lsm/hitori's globals on the matter, I'll naturally go check what threads are currently active, including those outside of the RP areas. What are the most active thread right now? Yours, with a big "S", and what will I see in them? Big walls of texts that are mainly complaints, or in Mixed jargon, dead sea levels of "salt."

You have already owned up to skimming my posts, so it's no surprise that you may get less from my posts than others do (and perhaps will, moreso, in the future).

You keep saying there is "Negativity" on the forums. Discussion, even heated discussion, is not 'negativity'. Expressing one's feelings about something horrible happening in another aspect of WoB is not "negative", as much as it is therapy.

If you think there should be more peppy, upbeat and cheery posts, why haven't you made any? You could bring up any number of subjects on the OOC boards, or even make suggestions for how we can move forward and improve many things about how people act towards one another, but.... instead, you skim, ghost the boards for a couple weeks, then come back and make remarks about 'negativity'.

Where have you been?!

Yeah, it'll be neat to get official RP mods because it'll give some weight/legitimacy to the RP forum, but an active and engaging RP is much more appealing, so that's where the focus should be. Heck, even non-Bleach RP would be a step towards reviving the forums since it's a little sign of life.

This here, right here. If I were to go and pick one paragraph in your post, the one that demonstrates the most foward-thinking, it would be this right here.

I would love to hear some more specifics on what you think we could start doing, in terms of encouraging RPers to come out of their slumps and their reservations about trying to get into WoB RPG again.

Heck, if they're anything like me, they probably could use less shaming and criticism, and more actual helpful input.

[Lacrimosa]

Alright, I'll just cut to the chase: replace "negativity" by "whining."

"This injustice happened to me."

"The mods are biased."

"The mods, admins, players keep ignoring me."

"My threads and supports keep getting locked/shut down without a proper reason."

"The players are mean to newcomers."

"The same-race killing sucks."

"I've been wronged and pushed aside despite having so much experience because it's not like this current mods/admins may also know how to run sites."

Pretty much all I hear are accusations towards mods and players because they refuse to cater to all your whims.

Oh and of course, I haven't made a single suggestion towards how to improve the current state of affair in the last few post I've made. Totes.

Where have I been for the past few weeks? Believe it or not, you're not that important for me to check the forums on a daily basis to entertain your egotism when I have other matters to take care of.

[Maximillion]

Alright, I'll just cut to the chase: replace "negativity" by "whining."

"This injustice happened to me."

Don't think I haven't read through old posts, to a time back when people actually felt that feedback was helpful and actually welcomed; objective feedback is hardly whining.

Seriously, it blows my mind... I see such casual and relaxed use of the term "whining", I'm starting to think people have forgotten what it actually means.

"The mods are biased.", "The mods, admins, players keep ignoring me.", "My threads and supports keep getting locked/shut down without a proper reason.", "The players are mean to newcomers."

All very serious issues, in their own rights. Maybe you're one fly dude, sunglasses on, hands in the pockets of your leather jacket, as you stroll through WoB, content as can be with the way WoB can be, but that does not require everyone else to feel likewise, nor does that invalidate the legitimacy of their issues with how the Community element can be.

As someone who was raised largely by a parent who lacks Empathy (in a clinical sense), and who got accused of 'guilt trips' when I expressed my feelings (because, unable to empathize with others, how were they to discern the legitimacy of another person's expression of their feelings?), I have to say that I sense a lot of that in you. I also sense a lot of that same element amongst the players who have been here longer.

Let me say, I'm sorry that you are missing out on so much of the beauty that exists in human interaction; it's no wonder you and they have so little patience or interest in people who speak of their own experiences, and feelings.

It must feel like such a bother to you and them, having to share space with people like me who still possess some degree of optimism, and who possess empathy for others like themselves who have experienced the same things they have.

Despite the beauty of such things, as I can understand that they've just become annoying and an inconvenience to you, I'm sorry you must go through that. Nobody should be exposed to so much toxicity that they become an  apathetic revenant with no love nor sympathy for those less fortunate, or that they begin to think that such behavior is 'the norm' to the point where they begin to conform to it, and regard - with such cold malice - those who have not yet been Turned.

"The same-race killing sucks."

Actually, I explained why it's both illogical, and ill-advised as a detriment to any other efforts to try and eliminate some of the toxicity in the community.

It really does blow my mind to see the way you read into my posts, though....as you skim through them, missing boatloads of context, from the looks of it.

"I've been wronged and pushed aside despite having so much experience because it's not like this current mods/admins may also know how to run sites." ← (strikethru to denote pointless self-indulgence on the part of the 'interpreter')

Resumés exist for a reason, and it's not so nepotism can reign supreme. Nothing wrong with proposing that one be asked/required to provide one, in exchange for being considered for a Staff Role.

I have never negated the experience and history some of the Staff have, but have pointed out that some don't seem to have all that much, even as others have significantly more than their peers. Again, just...as I read through your interpretation of my context, just... WOW.

Pretty much all I hear are accusations towards mods and players because they refuse to cater to all your whims.

Ya heard wrong, Willis. Take the time to read my posts more thoroughly, and without all the angst, arrogance and 'whining' tone you seem to be (subconsciously) injecting into every one of my posts. (At this point, waiting for you to try and pull the "aminz kan i haz free stuffz0rz" card, as critical as you are of people who have taken the time to make their arguments factual, and logical)

Where have I been for the past few weeks? Believe it or not, you're not that important for me to check the forums on a daily basis to entertain your egotism when I have other matters to take care of.

"Egotism"... "Whining"... The ease with which you drop these words into casual conversation makes it clear to me that you're not unaccustomed to using these terms a lot. Perhaps, most of the times you have used it, these pejoratives were actually applicable; maybe somewhere, at some time, there are people who do nothing but whine, and towards the ends of their own self-indulgence, and they are deserving of your scathing criticisms, perhaps some even to such an extent that your criticisms are understating how obnoxious those people are.

This isn't one of those situations.

Now, I don't expect to change your mind; you seem pretty set in your ways.

However, in the future, if you're going to skim my posts, and lose every bit of context therein, please... just do us both a favor, and don't even bother replying.

There are improvements I'm hoping to make, that will benefit far more people than just myself. Maybe, instead of making the most scathing, insulting and condescending posts you can think of, you might make your replies (from hereon out) exclusively centered on steps we can take, to improve New Player Retention, and to make the focus of the Administration less centered on just pleasing the many bored, uninspired Level 150s who - surprisingly - seem to usually be the primary focus of all the new Updates and Patches.

It isn't like we (who came later) are a bunch of dolts, bumbling cross-eyed onto WoB, who need to learn how to 'grow a pair' and 'man up' and accept the way things are.

It's a lot more like we're your run of the mill Average Joes who stumble into a place that is usually very unwelcoming, inhospitable, and whose only saving grace is that the Grid Action (barring involvement with other players) is actually superbly designed and coded.

[Maximillion]

I personally like a few of these options and wouldn't mind working with RP staff, assuming there's interest in the thread.

1) Assuming that game stats, rank, etc., are part of the forums - I could see giving some form of reward for growing the community. Yen/souls and AP would be fine imo (Lsm may differe here) at the recommendation of RP-staff pending approval by administration (obviously we wouldn't be able to allow RP staff to just give these away on a whim. Premium credits I don't know that there would be much that participating on a RP would constitute a valid reason for this sort of thing.

To elaborate a bit further on the yen/souls and AP reward ::
Case: User finishes a patrol / killing a boss / whatever, upon completion the thread is closed and passed on to administration for validation. Using set guidelines (say class S mission gives 30,000 yen / 5 AP to participants), it is reviewed by RP staff and approved -> then sent to game administration for a final check/balance sort of thing and if approved that admin disburses the rewards. (Obviously numbers here are abstract).

2) Additional panel for RP character in-game to me is a bit odd. What would it be used for? You can open it and see your character -- but you can already see that publicly on the forums. What would the need be for this? (this is what it sounds like to me that you're asking).

Not really an opinion on the story-based thing, since Lsm is working on that - it could be easily incorporated into the RP by staff.

This thread got a bit out of hand. I would like to return it to the subject matter, which was talking about future developments to make the RP more immersive, and have live-time rewards.


With the "RP Character Tab" idea, I think we'd be talking about you being able to go into "Settings", and down below your Journal, having an area called "RPG Character". It could have "Name, Age, Race, Class, Height, Weight, Hair, Eyes, Skin Tone, Alignment, Zanpakuto/Weapon, Shikai/Resurreccion, Bankai/Segunda", etc.

That would just be the stuff that is a piece of cake to implement. To take it a step farther, we could even have it as a Profile Field in Social, right under our names (a link going "RPG Character"). That field would exist in Settings too, and would simply link to the Tab/Page where our RPG details are (or, it would link to the part of the profile WHERE the details were, if on the same page...like Anchors in a Word Document, etc)

[Maximillion]

We can close this thread; LSM has forsaken us, along with his indolent, apathetic (except when it suits them to be hostile) Battalion.

[Hitori]

Only OP may request a thread lock.

[Lacrimosa]

You may as well close it. I have lost all interest I had in getting myself involved in the forums.

[Maximillion]

You may as well close it. I have lost all interest I had in getting myself involved in the forums.

*SAID* you had; the interest indicated only in word, never in deed.

No matter. If staff don't care, the board will die, all I or anyone else can do is put the husk on machines and prolong the inevitable.

If staff do ever care again, like they did in 2013, this place will become so excessively illiberal (from the sneaky, tyrannical entities the most present Staff have become), it won't be a refuge from the grid anymore.

Damned if we do, damned if we don't.

Enjoy your clicks, Lacrimosa.

[Hitori]

Thread closed per OP request.

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