Re: How 'bout some DIVERSITY~

[Limitless]

Although personally I think filling in every single square in the area of that move (or every "new" move) is counterproductive to the entire positioning strategy I'm trying to bring into reality. Reason being: the whole idea behind getting original with shapes is so that positioning can be both accented and creative, which is why in my first example I left out several squares.

I know, I'm not too sure if you read what was said above though, other than Lsm's post, but ah well.

I am aware of what you're seeking for with the innovative range ideas of yours, yet I posted that as an example of why they have not been added as of yet. Hence the coloured squares that effectively screw up the ideal range. Yet, that is how range boost currently works and if it's to be kept, it's to be taken into consideration.

It also somewhat emphasizes how problematic range boost is/may become if it already isn't.

Note: For those with customs and who can't be arsed to read several posts above, it's been suggested that range boost becomes available only for customs.

Yes I did, but I guess I mistook that particular issue for something else. My apologies; as you can probably infer, I'm the big picture type who puts parts together into a perspective. The details of those parts isn't exactly my forte, particularly with a game mechanic that I've not fully organically experienced, but I try nonetheless.

Can you be more concise with how range boost works? Does it involve a formula that expands every range the same way by X amount of squares in a linear fashion? Are you saying that range boost, as it's currently coded, would not support controlled and specific placing of the AoE (i.e. omitting squares from range)? If not, wouldn't the increased range be solved by a larger grid?

[Legend]

I'd say keep it on customs and S-ranks but thats my opinion. What about movement would it be custom only? Or will it still be allowed on all?

[Haruchi]

I'd say keep it on customs and S-ranks but thats my opinion. What about movement would it be custom only? Or will it still be allowed on all?

Dunno about movement. Prolly be cut away just like range since it can be increased with speed and HSM anyhow...

Can you be more concise with how range boost works? Does it involve a formula that expands every range the same way by X amount of squares in a linear fashion? Are you saying that range boost, as it's currently coded, would not support controlled and specific placing of the AoE (i.e. omitting squares from range)? If not, wouldn't the increased range be solved by a larger grid?

I myself am not too familiar with how it's been coded, but I believe I can say this much (Lsm's free to correct me): As it is now, it's not possible to omit certain moves from not being affected by range boost (which leads to not being possible to omit certain squares).

Increasing the grid leads to a problem with the layout, which could be solved with making the cells bigger - ...but the grid already is quite big and making the cells smaller could, at worst, make the current 13x11 grid into a 26x22 if the cells were halved. Plenty of room to roam about with little to no alterations to the layout width.

Rather than tinkering with the sizes: natural obstacles, really. Those we need if we are to add different kinds of ranges, and in general as well.

[Ezoroth]

Well, how about for the range boost just add a certain pattern to it, not effecting the actual squares. Or maybe it'll copy the pattern and add it to the end of it. (Not the whole pattern, just a piece of it.)

Also wouldn't it just take another few lines of coding or whatever in order for it to create a pattern of squares that ISN'T effected by the attacks range? Also obstacles would be GREAT with a larger grid, because with a small grid there wouldn't be many of them.

Next ideas that I have to add to this one, moves that you can control the path. You know how in the series they'd be able to control the direction of certain attacks? Now I'm not saying ALL attacks should be like this, only certain ones. Like say you have an attack that has high range, but the pattern isn't really effective. Why not then have it to where however high of a level you are with that attack you can control the path with however many squares. Like at level 20 of said attack you can control the path one (Meaning you can't control it until you level it to 20) square every turn, and say it's a range of six forward and it has 12 blocks total (that means the pattern has two squares per line it goes at the target.) You can control the path so that it can follow the target, using a certain eqaution (Say x = total amount of squaress, y = ending square limit. y = x - x/3, seeing as the total is 12 it would then be y = 12 - 12/3, which would become y = 12 - 4, which means y = 8.) that could even it out. If the number doesn't turn up as a whole number than round it up (y = 17 - 17/3. y = 17 - 5.66. y = 17 - 6. y = 11)

Then attacks that you can use, but don't take effect until after a set amount of turns. (Attacks fired into the air that does area damage at a certain area the player has pre-selected after say, three turns? Like an explosive kido shot into the air.)

Explosive attacks, whenever shot at the opponent they'll stop when they hit the opponent or they'll keep going until they either hit the opponent or they meet range maximum, where it'll explode and create a sphere of both AoE damage and then do damage from the explosion itself.

[Haruchi]

Also wouldn't it just take another few lines of coding or whatever in order for it to create a pattern of squares that ISN'T effected by the attacks range?

in Lsm's stead.

As for the controllable direction and whatnot... Some things are best to be kept simple, especially when the system is at a battle grid-base. You must keep the limitations of this kind of system in mind. I also don't see how exactly one is supposed to control the path. If it's the equation, I yield. Math isn't my strongest subject, sensibility is.

Yes, it would be nice if this worked with a Flash-base/MMO-base and was able to do things those bases allow to, but it doesn't.

Then attacks that you can use, but don't take effect until after a set amount of turns. (Attacks fired into the air that does area damage at a certain area the player has pre-selected after say, three turns? Like an explosive kido shot into the air.)

Explosive attacks, whenever shot at the opponent they'll stop when they hit the opponent or they'll keep going until they either hit the opponent or they meet range maximum, where it'll explode and create a sphere of both AoE damage and then do damage from the explosion itself.

These two ideas (let's call them Timed/Charge attacks) have been suggested before ages ago if memory serves. And not accepted for one reason or another.

The former: The ranges would have to be kept relatively small (3.3, square is nice for a ''bomb'', which naturally will become 6.3 with range boost - yes, I am keen to bring it up over and over...). They would be fairly...useless considering how much is dependant on opponent's movements. When they are 'launched'/'fired', the opponent will know there's a timed attack coming and will move aside. Of course, succesful avoidance of the attack requires some gambling, but the chances are he/she is succesfull at dodging it.

The latter: Is this another 'timed' attack that takes effect after few turns? Or "travels" across the grid (much like AI's in Survival battles)? Same as above really...

[Ezoroth]

As for the controllable direction and whatnot... Some things are best to be kept simple, especially when the system is at a battle grid-base. You must keep the limitations of this kind of system in mind. I also don't see how exactly one is supposed to control the path. If it's the equation, I yield. Math isn't my strongest subject, sensibility is.

Easy way to control, every turn that goes by they just select the next square for it to go to. (Has to be in the radius of the last square, obviously.) It's extremely simple and I don't think that it would be hard to script. (Shouldn't be, it's just like moving but instead you're controlling the attack.)

These two ideas (let's call them Timed/Charge attacks) have been suggested before ages ago if memory serves. And not accepted for one reason or another.

Oops, sorry if it was xD I don't recall that :P

The former: The ranges would have to be kept relatively small (3.3, square is nice for a ''bomb'', which naturally will become 6.3 with range boost - yes, I am keen to bring it up over and over...). They would be fairly...useless considering how much is dependant on opponent's movements. When they are 'launched'/'fired', the opponent will know there's a timed attack coming and will move aside. Of course, succesful avoidance of the attack requires some gambling, but the chances are he/she is succesfull at dodging it.

Well, the ranges wouldn't have to be small. (However why a square? Spheres would be more interesting since we're in this therad. Also range boost, why does it have to effect only one side?) They could be used to control the direction you want the opponent to go, say you want him to move into a stronger attack. Now it should make sense. Also the opponent can know, but he still has a chance of moving right into it, or into another attack from the opponent. You might think it's useless, but I think that it's bloody brilliant and very easily can it be used for strategical use.

The latter: Is this another 'timed' attack that takes effect after few turns? Or "travels" across the grid (much like AI's in Survival battles)? Same as above really...

Well, how I was thinking of it was that explosive attacks would go towards the opponent (Say 4 squares every turn, so that it wouldn't be extremely easy to dodge.) and that the explosion would be pretty decent so that you can still hit the opponent if they happen to move out of the range, but not too big to where the player has to move to halfway in between landing point and the other player. Or they just act like a normal attack except that (Like moving) they stop whenever hitting an opponent, but with the added effect of an explosion. (And maybe AoE? :D)

[Lsmjudoka]

About Coding Difficulty
The data objects are 3,106 lines of code, and the core battle engine is 6,137 lines of code, including intricately stacked logical expressions inside loops, running analysis to determine paths and such. Making structural changes to how moves work is not really simple, one small change = one change modified 8 different ways, and a small mistake on any one of these will mess it up. So these things aren't really that simple to code. If you still believe it is, you're welcome to code it~

Controlling the entire path of your attack is a no -- The complexity of changing the system, confusion and additional actions required(7 selections to use one attack if the range is 6 squares?) make it not practical.


Back to the original idea
It seems the primary idea is to make attacks skip certain squares in a pattern -- which is feasible. And I can see how that might make things more interesting... I won't rule it out atm, but there are a lot of considerations including range that need to be taken into account. Additionally I'm not sure if the benefit compared to the effort is enough to put this over several other things on the list. It would take coding to track if a square was skipped the last turn, and significant structural changes to set what patterns can be allowed and make sure admins can set them correctly. As well as coding to track the overall pattern, which could get complex given moves of varying ranges/widths. But I do have an idea or two for adding some change to the battles, which are on my list of things to code.

Bottom line: I'm not saying no, it'll be considered, but don't hold your breath.

[Limitless]

I'll take it at that. Thanks for formally hearing this idea out, I know it's been tossed around before I came here. I was just the voice who spoke it on record.

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